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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:35 pm 
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Real builders don't use megasquirt. Simple as that.

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:42 pm 
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1983Turbo242 wrote:
I keep forgetting i am wasting my breath here.

90+ MANIFOLD, NPR, GREENTOPS, 16T ANGLE FLANGE, 3" D.P., MSnS. Thats the only way that you can make power bro.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Look, the point of this thread is NOT to say MegaSquirt is the be-all, end-all of aftermarket EMS. It's so that YOU can tell US why it apparently sucks SO BADLY. You DO realize that cost IS a limiting factor for MANY people, do you not? Regardless of the limitations, it DOES make good power and has an excellent price to performance ratio. Kenny (linuxman51) has been putting most of us West-coasters to shame with his MS-powered 740's for a few years now.

Speaking of which, I forgot to add Sam's 2jz'ed 240sx making 850+ HP with MSnS - http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=115735

So, again - what makes MegaSquirt so bad, and the other EMS solutions so good? I REALLY want to know, seriously.

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:47 pm 
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1983Turbo242 wrote:
Real builders don't use megasquirt. Simple as that.


More blanket statements with nothing to back it up... come on. Are you just bummed because the one fact you tried to throw (COP wrongness) was full of fail. Please, bring us some REAL advantages to spending more money! Jonathan, you out there... you are the Haltec expert. I know you have made some very good arguments for it in the past. I welcome your comments.

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:49 pm 
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Tune ability. MS does not have sufficient resolution to squeeze every last horse from a motor. Yes cost is a factor, so i set a budget for my build :D Mind you, that budget is what 2 850 T5's would sell for, but still, it is a budget. I would say, if you are running a mildly modded Bxx turbo motor, then MS would work dandy. But i want my car to be "Clench marks in the seat cushion" fast. Getting 200 hp per liter out of megasquirt is feasible, but i would rather get every single horse I can out of the entire RPM range.

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:51 pm 
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Wolf fuel maps are 14 by 14 (assuming I counted correctly) and MS maps are 12 by 12. Is that SOOOO much better resolution that its going to make that much difference?

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:53 pm 
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evolwun wrote:
Wolf fuel maps are 14 by 14 (assuming I counted correctly) and MS maps are 12 by 12. Is that SOOOO much better resolution that its going to make that much difference?


That is over 15% more tuning ability.

Wolf fuel maps can also be laid out in 3 dimensions.

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:54 pm 
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1983Turbo242 wrote:
Wolf fuel maps can also be laid out in 3 dimensions.


Yawn... so can MS. Research dude, research.

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:56 pm 
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evolwun wrote:
1983Turbo242 wrote:
Wolf fuel maps can also be laid out in 3 dimensions.


Yawn... so can MS. Research dude, research.


Eh. . . Never mind. I keep forgetting the lack of aspirations on this forum.

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:58 pm 
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Is a 'real builder' someone with a shop and a website/brick and mortar storefront where people go and say "I want X done to my car and I don't care how much $$$ it costs to do it"? Because I'm pretty sure the guys over at B&G didn't care for that approach and decided to build their own EMS. Throwing money at someone who can do stuff doesn't make them a builder. It makes them someone who can build stuff without worrying about costs. People who don't want to spend $$$ might also want a quality EMS. And at some point in the development cycle, EVERY EMS started out JUST LIKE MEGASQUIRT.

evolwun wrote:
Wolf fuel maps are 14 by 14 (assuming I counted correctly) and MS maps are 12 by 12. Is that SOOOO much better resolution that its going to make that much difference?


http://www.ms3efi.com/product.html - MSv3 offers 16x16 maps.


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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:00 pm 
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volvogeek wrote:
evolwun wrote:
Wolf fuel maps are 14 by 14 (assuming I counted correctly) and MS maps are 12 by 12. Is that SOOOO much better resolution that its going to make that much difference?


http://www.ms3efi.com/product.html - MSv3 offers 16x16 maps.


Yes, but in Brian's defense, its really not "out" yet. Its still beta-ish. But soon :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:00 pm 
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volvogeek wrote:
Is a 'real builder' someone with a shop and a website/brick and mortar storefront where people go and say "I want X done to my car and I don't care how much $$$ it costs to do it"? Because I'm pretty sure the guys over at B&G didn't care for that approach and decided to build their own EMS. Throwing money at someone who can do stuff doesn't make them a builder. It makes them someone who can build stuff without worrying about costs. People who don't want to spend $$$ might also want a quality EMS. And at some point in the development cycle, EVERY EMS started out JUST LIKE MEGASQUIRT.

evolwun wrote:
Wolf fuel maps are 14 by 14 (assuming I counted correctly) and MS maps are 12 by 12. Is that SOOOO much better resolution that its going to make that much difference?


http://www.ms3efi.com/product.html - MSv3 offers 16x16 maps.


^ this is the best argument of the night. Is MSv3 available as a pre-assembled kit?

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:08 pm 
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1983Turbo242 wrote:
^ this is the best argument of the night. Is MSv3 available as a pre-assembled kit?

So you're using the fact that MSv3 isn't quite out yet as your defense as to why a $2k ems is better than a $400 ems? I'm pretty sure that a car running MSv2 can plug in a MSv3 ecu and with a little tweaking be just fine and dandy when the hardware hits the streets in a couple of months (forum estimates production units available Q1 2010, which by my watch would be no later than the end of March).

edit: but even then, you still haven't answered the question. WHY IS MS NOT GOOD ENOUGH?


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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:16 pm 
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Holy s*** is this TB?


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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:16 pm 
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abdlock wrote:
Holy s*** is this TB?

This isn't TB, THIS is TB.


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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:27 pm 
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All this talk about budgets and cost... meh. The budget for my 745Ti's bodywork and paint alone would put most of you to shame, so I don't want to hear about budgets. And what I just dropped on my whiteblock rebuild and M66 swap could buy both your cars Brian.

And as for your argument of making real power with green tops, 90+ manifold, 3" DP and all that... I'm well past that point now. That's grade-school stuff.

Regarding MS being for real builders, that's BS too. It has nothing to do with being "real" or not. It has everything to do with preference. And just because I'm going with MS for my 142 project doesn't mean that I'm not open to other EMS systems...

- I've tried Split Second on the 745Ti.
- I've used Perfect Power on the same car.
- I've used IPD's ECU flash on my R.
- Now I'm trying Turbo Tuner on the R.

Haltec is expensive. Peter dropped over $1,500 on the system in his 744 race car... and wasn't even totally happy with it! To each his own I say. And if anyone (including Brian) has negative things to say about MS, then fine... that's his opinion. It's also his opinion that a turbo street motor can run reliably on 14:1 compression ratios and pump gas. :roll:

Now stop all your bitching and complaining and build a real car, using your "tried and tested" theories. Then bring it out to PIR so I can blow its doors off with my B230FT powered 142. Oh yeah, it'll be the little blue car running MS... :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:32 am 
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K-Jet power bitches :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:26 am 
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Tuff240 wrote:
K-Jet power bitches :lol:


Nice, Pat :lol:

What are you guys running on the race car?

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:28 am 
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I don't really like Linuxman (he can be condescending sometimes), but he made a very good argument on TB about all this MS bashing... and summed up the way I feel about the majority of "off-topic" threads, and some of the noobs we encounter on these forums. Thought I'd share with y'all...

[QUOTE=linuxman51;2915805]since I'm bored....

And already predicted failure for the OP, I will point out that this type of attitude that the OP is espousing is hardly original, and is the epitome of why so many people on this forum fall short of even achieving mediocrity when it comes to performance..

Too many noobs like the OP are 'google learn-ed' without any practical knowledge of what they're trying to talk about (prime example-the velocity/backpressure intercooler piping thread... did anyone really think that it actually ****ing matters what size pipe you're running on an otherwise stock ****ing b230?), and then get mired down arguing about nuances and details.

The accountability is gone. Back in the day (hah! probably before OP was old enough to go to school without parental assistance), if you had a dissenting viewpoint, that was fine, but you'd better have the ****ing BALLS to go out and attempt to BACK YOUR TALK UP. And we weren't talking about other internet examples. If you couldn't go turn the wrench to make it happen, or convince someone else to go try your wild ass idea, it was cast aside until you could.

Lets see some more of that. We were all broke as a joke ten years ago too, and **** was WAY more expensive and less readily available, and we still got it ****ing done. Now this new crop of noobs, I'm sorry, keyboard jockies, since they obviously lack any kind of mechanical aptitude- have 10-15 different examples of how to get to a modest level of performance and go from there. What do we get instead? attitude, self righteous indignation, and some bizarre sense of entitlement from those who have done nothing. What's up with that? The old school guys give each other **** because we've all been there and done that, and know why we're giving each other ****, the new guys are just dropping e-thug bombs left and right trying to establish some 'street cred'

The only way you'll achieve that is by going out and doing things. No one gives a **** what you say, and no one will remember you for talking **** on the internet about a bunch of other people's cars and ideas (Except the people you're talking **** about.. they'll remember it when they're out there doing things while you're inside looking at ugly bitches posted up on riced out bricks, masturbating to some sort of fantasy in which the ugly bitch is up on *your* rusty 200 series piece of junk).

Pathetic. Go do something, Noob.[/QUOTE]

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:13 pm 
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Yes, Brian's search fingers ARE broken. He never had any.

There are two or maybe even 3 4 cylinder Volvos on Turbobricks that have over 500hp with Megasquirt.

Brian, every stupid little thing you mention can be done with Megasquirt. I don't know how much the resolution differs between the EMS setups, but I'm quite sure you do not know either. I do know that MS can be setup to do all the little bits of nothing that you want, and can be reliable, and can cost much less than anything else all at the same time while giving over 1000hp if installed in the right setup.

It's not as much about what you use as it's about how you use it.

Now please stop trolling and being an idiot wherever you post. You know that you are unqualified to talk crap, it's been that way ever since you first started playing with cars. You don't own a fast Volvo, you've ridden go-karts for years but you still lost at Sykart, your mouth is big but your actions are tiny. Save us the annoyance please, or we will be forced to make you sit in time-out for a while. Hopefully you'll grow up to be a smarter, more responsible person soon.

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:44 pm 
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From Aaron's 755 thread:

1983Turbo242 wrote:
You are entitled to your own opinion. . . I just prefer to base my opinion off of facts, research, the newest technology. . . that type of thing.
Stop lying, it's not nice.
evolwun wrote:
Dude, don't make yourself sound stupid
Too late.
weezilusa wrote:
the reason (myself include) MS can be less than awesome, is the way that people cobble together setups... If you buy a pre-made brand new MS version, made your wiring harness with all brand new wire and connectors, used new sensors, it would be a lot closer in cost to that of a cheaper pre-made EMS system... But it has most of the features if not more [than] one of those systems...[for much, much less money]
[...]
In most applications MS isn't the limiting factor there that you simply can't tune it better cause its not accurate enough.
And MS can indeed be setup for whatever you want, you just have to be able to modify the MS system as you need/see fit.

MS isn't for everyone. That doesn't mean it can't be used to do just about everything else that any other costly engine management system on the market can do, just about as well. Some people have the brains and skills to make MS do what they want and need with great success. Others can not.

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